I got so excited by what I heard there that I could scarcely contain myself, but I didn't understand what I heard so I returned the next week and the next. I started to read about physics, then I decided to share these things that were exciting me so much in the form of a book.

I asked some physicists if they would help me. They agreed, and I began to write. I was delighted in this activity. I was stimulated and fulfilled by it. At that time, I didn't have an income, so when I wasn't writing I was worrying about the rent. When I was writing, I entered a new domain of experience that I had not encountered before. I was gratified, fulfilled, and excited about what I was doing. It was fun.

DiCarlo: Did you find that your study of quantum mechanics has helped you to further understand a multi-dimensional Universe. Ken Wilber, in speaking about a quantum reality, says that quantum physics cannot tell us anything about the higher dimensions-you cannot extrapolate from the lower to the higher at all. Is there anything of value in quantum physics that helps when it comes to trying to intellectually grasp these higher realities?

Zukav: Yes, but they can't be grasped intellectually. That is why science has gone as far as it can go as it is currently structured. It is an empirical endeavor, which means that all that can be accepted as valid by science is that which can be consensually verified with the five senses. This has been the strength of science since its origin, but that is what now blocks its growth. Quantum physics is the pinnacle development of science. It leads us to the intellectual realization that consciousness is an aspect of physical reality, that the two can't be separated.

There are five major interpretations-and others that are not so prominent-of the quantum formalism. Some, such as the statistical interpretation, deny that consciousness is involved in subatomic phenomena. Some, like Wigner's interpretation, are based on the opposite point of view. Others fall between these two, or maybe they just fall elsewhere. But the point is, no one can discuss the quantum formalism without addressing the relationship of consciousness, or the lack of it, to the fundamental structures of quantum physics, namely, complimentarity and the uncertainty principle.

The answer to your question is, "My study of quantum physics didn't directly lead to anything in The Seat of The Soul, but it was stimulating and it was fun. It was an exciting adventure to the limits of the intellect. Those limits, in my view, are represented by the quantum theory.

DiCarlo: Did something happen to you between The Dancing Wu Li Masters andThe Seat of the Soul which allowed you to write so profoundly about higher realities of which we are a part?

Zukav: Yes, I discovered non-physical reality.

DiCarlo: Was that the result of any intentional endeavor on your part?

Zukav: I didn't know at the time that there was such a thing as non-physical reality. But intentions of the soul operate at very deep places within us. You do your part by setting intentions consciously, to the best of your ability. That brings you into alignment with your soul, with your deepest sense of meaning, but not necessarily into alignment with what your rabbi, priest or President tells you.

DiCarlo: You have stated, "I am not a speculator. I know that we are immortal, and that we are wearing what our Native American brothers and sisters call an 'Earth suit.' " What has allowed you to possess such a strong conviction that we are more than our physical bodies?

Zukav: There's a difference between conviction and experience. Conviction is something that you need to have if you don't have experience. Having conviction can create an experience which will then let you know if your conviction is correct or not. I do not have a conviction that non-physical reality exists and that we are part of non-physical reality. I do not have a conviction that we are immortal souls and that we are part of a living Universe of physical and non-physical beings. I do not have to be convinced of these things anymore than you have to be convinced that oak leaves are green in the summer. Do you see? If you were blind, if you had no physical eyesight, and enough people told you that in the summer oak leaves are green, you would develop the conviction that this is so. But if you see it for yourself, you do not have to be convinced.

DiCarlo: So you are speaking about your own personal experiences?

Zukav: Yes.

DiCarlo: Well could you elaborate upon what that experience has been like for you?

Zukav: I have these experiences because humanity is becoming multi-sensory and I am part of humanity. But the deeper answer is that these experiences and everything else come by grace. Life is a miracle at each moment. It is miraculous and I have no explanation for that.

DiCarlo: Frequently, you hear people remark that if we lived in a just world, then we wouldn't have illness, we wouldn't have atrocities against our fellow human beings. We wouldn't have war. How do you view these things from a multi-sensory perspective?

Zukav: The underlying question is, "Why is there pain in the world?" There is pain in the world because we create it. We have not yet learned to create otherwise; that is what we are learning. There is pain in the world in our relationships with each other, and these, by the way, are the vehicles through which we grow. There is no other way to grow except through your relationships to others. You cannot grow only through a relationship to a business or a career. Your growth depends upon your ability to interact with your fellow souls. You will not grow until you have the courage to enter into relationships with them.

This question is important because there is so much pain in the world. This has been our history until now. Human history has been the sequential recording of one brutality after another. You will know in yourself that you are striving for authentic empowerment when a part of you decides that it will not participate any longer in this brutality, that your life will contribute something else to the human experience, and you find a way to do that in your day-to-day interactions. These will cumulatively form the course of your life.

DiCarlo: Do you feel that we as souls have made the decision to come to this Earth plane intentionally?

Zukav: Yes.

DiCarlo: Well, why might we choose to experience a physical reality limited by our five senses?

Zukav: There are two reasons. First, we choose as souls to experience what we have created in the past but have not yet experienced. Whenever you act in the Earth school you create consequences that effect others. You will also experience these consequences, in this lifetime or another.

In the East this is called karma. In the West this is called the Golden Rule. This is a compassionate dynamic through which each soul learns, in the intimacy of its own experience and therefore learns how to create wisely. If you create something in the life of another person, and do not experience that yourself by the time you return home-leave the Earth school and return to the fullness of your soul-your soul will create another personality with another body and another intuitional structure and it will voluntarily enter the Earth school again in order to experience what it has created but has not yet experienced. This is not a punishment-there is no such thing. It happens because the soul, in its full wisdom, strives for ever-increasing wholeness and perfection.

An incarnation is planned with the loving assistance of non-physical Teachers. Arrangements are made with other souls to create interactions within the Earth school. The outcome of those interactions is not known in advance because the soul does not know how its personality will respond to the opportunities that it has arranged for it.

That is where your free will comes into play. When you encounter difficult circumstances in this Earth school, you have the option to take things personally, to become angry and blame others. You also have the option to understand that every one of your interactions in the Earth school is meaningful, offers you potential for spiritual growth, and there is a karmic factor at work in all that you encounter. Therefore, when someone offends you, or does something that you do not agree with, you do not have to react with anger, judgement and vengeance. You can take a step back and understand that there is a lesson in this for you. This does not mean that you become a doormat to the world. It means that you choose your responses consciously and responsibly create what you desire to experience in your future.

The second reason that souls incarnate is to give gifts. When you are doing what your soul wants you to do, when you are giving your soul's gifts-your life fills with meaning, excitement and satisfaction.

So the two reasons that souls incarnate is to experience what they desire to experience within the Earth school and to give their gifts- to fulfill their sacred contracts with the Universe.

As we become multi-sensory we begin to understand this. We begin to appreciate how extraordinary the Earth school is and what a privilege it is to be in it. When you see this, you will walk the Earth with awe and gratitude.

Russell E. DiCarlo is a medical writer, author, lecturer and workshop leader who's focus is on personal transformation, consciousness research and the fields of energy and anti-aging medicine. His forthcoming book is entitled "The Definitive Guide To Anti-Aging Medicine" (1998, Future Medicine Publishing). DiCarlo resides in Erie, Pennsylvania.

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